Ian: there are many human conditions that we laugh about or poke fun at, I feel sure there are certain types of cancer that are pilloried in some way (leukemia, prostate I have heard from the people themselves who suffer it...is that different?), I guess it's one way of the ways that we learn to More...

I had a brilliant response to your previous post, Ian, including a recipe challenge but got a database error upon submitting.
Jokes about Alzheimer's: Jokes about afflictions, potty humor and traveling salesmen were great when I was 12 or 14 with a bunch of buddies on a campout. Remember More...

Hollandaise every time...

sorry Ian - think i misunderstood your question...that why is it there are no cancer jokes posted on comments? too many 'touched' by cancer and not so many by Alzeimers perhaps? who knows...

billy: I don't think that's it. I suspect it's the same reason we make fun of retardation...there is something cruel and ugly in all of us that gets away with it, when we can.

jeb: Not arrogance, it's just being past the sixth grade. Ever seen the parodies on South Park about Penn and Teller and fart jokes? Applies here.

Ian - just googled this site and it did warn 'Macabre jokes are not to everyone's taste.'

http://www.learningplaceonline.com/illness/humor/ jokes/01-archive.htm

I was trying to gauge my feelings when i was reading them, and my feelings were ambivalent to some of the humour...

Ian - there is a british show called 'Extras' that crosses every boundary where bad taste is concerned, however, they get away with it: jokes on Cerebral Palsy, dwarfism, brain tumours etc, namely because the people who are sending it up are the ones playing the roles in reality. Does this make it More...

Billy:
Mamacita's comment on page one deals with that very thing only the context is skin colour. If I were to smash my thumb with a hammer, I could probably find some humor in it - later. If I were faced with terminal cancer, I don't know how I'd deal with that now but I don't think I'd find More...

And mores the pity.

Ian, thanks for the warnings about Alzheimers jokes. I'm catching up on archives, but with your forewarning, will skip a couple of days...too close for comfort

Here is something that my daughter is researching for her platform for a scholarship, any thoughts are appreciated:

What is the difference between a 'disability' and a 'handicap'?

Thanks in advance.

LK: Many thanks. I just had a fine time with the dictionary. Before going to the etymology, I would have simply said that a disability means that an action is impossible (dis-ability), while a handicap means that an action is more difficult, but still possible. And that's pretty much true.
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Hi Ian, glad to see you are stll around, miss you in chatroom. I always look forward to your viewpoint on things. Later I will post what initially started this discussion and our thoughts on it. You are very close to the same thoughts we had.

I am very interested to see what others think.

Linda:
Handicap and disability need to be defined in context. Every person born has a handicap of some sort and most learn to compensate for it. The severity of the handicap may require extraordinary allowances to be taken. Disability as seen by the insurance industry and the law, is looked More...

While I was growing up, a neighbor had(has) muscular distrophy. He did not go to school, just spent his time at home. I would go up and play with him. I then began to teach him the alphabet, numbers, reading, whatever I was learning at the time. Schools at that time did not mainstream. When I More...

Becky:
Spot on.
Never knew anyone with MD, but the head librarian at my alma mater had cerebral palsy. He was a little difficult to understand and you had to be patient for an answer. Just saying 'hi' was good for at least a minute's stand off. But the guy was brilliant. After getting to know him, his handicap disappeared and you only saw the scholar.

I have a friend with cerebral palsy who is very 'political' and he says 'you HAVE a handicap'-as does everyone of some kind ,but 'you ARE disabled'. In Becky's situation her neighbour had a handicap which he surmounted to some extent but the young one, by not being in the world to the best of his ability, is disabling himself.

Total agreement with the last three posts. A colleague of mine has Cerebral Palsy, and you get used to the ''language'' pretty quickly. He is also the host for the too-rare poker games.

And maybe technology has converted a lot of disabilities to handicaps...some actions are no longer impossible, just harder than 'normal.'

Good thread, LK.

Thank you Ian.

The question that comes to mind at this point. Is the handicapped truly handicapped if physical or mental defincies are sufficiently overcome by hard work that 'normal' activities are no longer un-achievable?

deficiencies

Good question, LK - I am pondering my answer.

The term ``handicap'' is sometimes now avoided,and is an inability that leaves one at a comparative disadvantage. So conceived, a handicap is a special case of an inability. The connection between handicap and disability is much looser
Handicap is a function of the relationship between disabled More...

A disability is an inability to execute some class of movements , or perform some cognitive function, that typical unimpaired humans are able to execute.when in no way a person with the disability can accomplish a particular task in question,a handicap may perform the same where the right tools and structures to support them are available.

hey...Becky has put the same view in much better form with an example..sorry didnt read the more section..

An old college professor and I used to engage in a continuing debate over the existance of 'human nature'. This was back in the 70's, he had been a judge in Cuba and had come to the US as a refugee from the Castro régime. His world view was dazzling. He once made a comment about something that More...

You both were, and still are, right. Society develops learned responses that become part of the individual's 'nature' in succeeding generations.

''The entire history of civilization is but a chronicle of man's struggle against nature.''

Ian:
The pitfall that Alfredo saved me from is the very one you fell into. Society is the bait for the trap. Sociocentric thinking fails the litmus test of human nature when simple comparisons are made. Remote societies have practiced ritual canabalism or leaving the sick and aging on the ice More...

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts re: disability vs. handicap. My daughter has been involved in helping with our local Special Olympics so it is something near and dear to her heart all of the special people that she works with.

Jeb: Very interesting thought. I think I will have to ponder that one for a bit.

Linda: Which one? I had two this month. And the month's not even over yet.

Needless to say, Jeb, I disgree. There is a universality of human nature, and different societies have progressed at different paces in dealing with it...see the quote about civilization.

I'm hungry...I see a kid with a hamburger...maybe I could just take it. At one point in society's More...

Ian:
Disagreement is the best part of this whole process. Anybody who disagrees with that is just plain stubborn.
The great debate between epistemology and empiricism. Is mankind enherently good or bad? How is the hypothesis tested and is the accumulated knowledge at hand sufficient to the More...

But all societies began by taking the hamburger. All are moving toward not taking it. By extension, I say that bestiality, violence and everything that goes with it were the starting point (human nature), and we are all moving away from it...very, very slowly in historic terms, pretty fast in any Darwinian perspective. After all, we're only a few thousand years out of the trees.

are we moving away,really??i doubt..bombing and killing the innocents,practising terrorism and massacring the mass under the name of religion, is it human nature??what kinda nature is it??or learned response??as long as man killing man exist ,and millions are spent in developing arms to destroy the mankind for ones own benefit,i wonder if can call ourself to be civilized at all!!

Fascinating subject..
Is mankind inherently good or bad? We cannot really define good/bad because who decides on what is good or bad? An eye for an eye sort of scenario, you murdered the man with the hamburger therefore we will take your life, for we know better, morality again, it really is a More...

I have wondered if some people can be born inherently 'evil' or if it is a learned response or a loose wire in the brain.

I was about to draw this to a close because of apparent lack of participation from a larger crowd. And now ap and andré contribute their voices, so we can follow along with them.
Ian: I've left a few clues along the way in this thread. 1st clue, I was a young college student, Alfredo was a More...

C. S. Lewis has a lot to say about the existence of, and the nature of, evil.

Jeb: Will there come a time when the practice of leaving the elderly in an old age home will be regarded as a slightly-updated version of the ice floe?

And billy, who just showed up. The good vs. bad debate has gone on for mellenia. One could say 'inherently good' in respect to the survival of the species and the constant attempt to improve civilization. On the other hand 'inherently bad' in respect to; where could civilization be now if 'bad' More...